Forum:ConsistencyScape: Release dates in infoboxes
- Previous discussion: Forum:Release date clarification
This week the achievement Steam Release was released with the update on Monday, but wasn't available until today (Wednesday). So far all achievements have always gotten the release date as release date, but due to items that come from Treasure Hunter getting the availability date as release date instead of the release date, there are editors who treat this achievement the same way.
The counter argument being that if this achievement wasn't hidden until obtained then you would be able to see it. Similarly, you cannot obtain Following in the footsteps yet, but since it's visible and not hidden until obtained, it is listed with the actual release date.
So my suggestion is to treat everything consistently:
- Change the release date of (Treasure Hunter) items to the date they were actually released and leave achievements on their actual release date as well. Including all other infoboxes as well.
- Change the release date of items to the date they became available excluding stuff like Jmod-only items like the rotten potato. Including all other infoboxes as well.
- Do nothing. Keep the status quo of InconsistencyScape.
Regardless of the chosen option, all infobox templates should reflect the result of this discussion.
Support #1 - As initiator of the discussion. And yes, I've changed my opinion of this subject since it was last discussed 5 years ago. :P09:47, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Support 1 - Always wondered why this wasn't streamlined.17:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Support 1 - As discussed on discord, would be fine adding a param for date available or something similar. Not sure how we'd mesh that with time locked things though.17:11, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Strong oppose 1 - unless there is the addition of a parameter for available/obtainable date. There can be a considerable difference in the date of something being "released" in the cache and it being available in game (if ever). This is something that I think is confusing for most players who just want to know if they can get the item. I do like the idea of the second parameter though - for clarity and those players who are aware of the game cache and who might find that information helpful. It would also work nicely for things in Category:Pages using information from game APIs or cache. 20:49, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- The addition of the available date would be included with option #1 btw. 14:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Comment - I haven't changed my opinion since the last time we discussed this. Release date of an item is when it is added to the game, and by that we mean the game code. The ten year loyalty crown was released in 2013, not in 2021. With regard to Treasure Hunter rewards, you will clarify (in the body of the article) which promotion the item comes from anyway. When you do this you would also want to provide the dates of said promotion, which states the timeframe in which the item can be actually obtained. This information is sufficient and does not need to be included in the infobox. 5-x Talk 16:01, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Support 1 + Comment - I think I support the idea of adding in the combination of the release date (= game code) and availability date (like Prifddinas). However, I think that this needs further discussion, as the suggestion does not discuss what is meant with availability. Personally, I think that availability is the moment at which players were able to get their hands on an item. This means that the item should not only be obtainable in some way, but also be able to be obtained by a player (after aquiring the right skill levels + quests). However, it might be much harder to get these dates accurately. Zorak plorak - Talk 07:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Oppose adding availability date to infoboxes - I think this only works in very niche areas. Prif is a great example because it was in the game for so long but never accessible, but something like the achievement isn't because it's just a time-gated achievement. The information becomes redundant once the achievement is possible to obtain, and it serves better as trivia.
I think we need to see it less as "when can the player literally use this piece of content/achieve this achievement" and more as "when did Jagex enable it such that players can use this piece of content/go for this achievement?". Let's take your achievement as an example. What if Jagex had allowed players to use D&D reset tokens to further progress with the achievement? Would we make the availability date 6 months instead of 12? Then it just gets confusing. There's a reason we aren't consistent with this stuff: nothing's the same. Haidro 00:59, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- I think you missed the point. The achievement isn't really the issue as it was released on 12 October and because it was hidden players didn't know it existed. If it wasn't hidden then this thread wouldn't have existed in the first place. It was merely the 'trigger' for this thread. Timegated stuff should not be considered at all for this discussion the second achievement was merely used as an example. The real point is about TH/event items/rewards and very rarely stuff like Prifddinas which tbh are two completely different things. Anyhow, what it comes down to is TH/event items/rewards, should have a release date for when they technically were added and the availibility date for when the related promotion or event goes live. Taking away any argument if the release date should be one or the other by adding the availability date so both will be recorded on the wiki. 01:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- Right now I'm working on 2001 equipment availability, and in some cases I feel that availability deserves to be more than a trivia footnote. Think about the Rune 2h sword, for instance. It's in the game cache in March 2001, purple and all, and there's even a picture of it. Official release? End of July 2001, probably, added to the Smithing table... But it required 98 smithing (+1 boost with dwarven stout), which was only reached by Bluerose at the end of November 2001. What's the release date? March? Because it was in the game cache and available to mods? July? Because players could potentially start to create it? Or November, because that is when they really could? Zorak plorak - Talk 21:17, 25 October 2020 (UTC)